goldendoodle?

Question by lalal: goldendoodle?
I have a two year old goldendoodle. I dont get all the bashing thats going on about them. Purebred dogs were made by mixing other purebred dogs together. For example, the australian silky terrier (an akc recognized breed) is a mix of an australian terrier and yorkshire terrier. A papillon is a mix of phalenes, chihuahuas, and spitzes. A goldendoodle is just a golden retriever and poodle mix. They should be recognized by now by the akc. People mix dogs so that they can fufill different purposes. A golden retriever is smart but sheds a lot. Mixing it with a poodle , would make it smart and not shed a lot-a perfect combination. Why can’t they get recognized?

Please no bashing. I’m just asking a question.
Can anyone explain step-by-step what people should do to get them recognized?
And i didnt get my dog from a puppy mill, so stop yelling at every single goldendoodle owner about it. You know nothing about me. I got my goldendoodle from a breeder. Its funny because purebred dogs can come from puppy mills too and i dont see anyone yelling at them for it.

Best answer:

Answer by mmcrobinson
Until the AKC recognizes them as a Breed they will continue to be mutts. so if want you can petition the AKC —-

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Comments

  1. Rachel - Pit Police says:

    Tell me then….what purpose does your breed serve that wasn’t already covered by an already existing breed?

    With mutts, there is no STANDARD. It is, and will always be, a toss of the dice. There is no way to guarentee that a “goldendoodle” will be low shedding. The breeder cannot ensure which traits the pups get from which breeds.

    I know a few people with “Labradoodles” and “Goldendoodles” and they all shed like f-ing crazy.

    Until those mutts DO serve a purpose beside being the newest and coolest, I’ll stick to what’s already recognized. And, If I want a mutt, I’ll adopt.

  2. I think it’s because Doodles are a relatively new “breed” and these things take time. I think there’s also the issue of continuation – if you breed one doodle to another, do you get another doodle? Or do some of the puppies revert back to the original breeds and look more like poodles and retrievers?

    I have a doodle, myself, and he’s wonderful. And don’t be upset that it’s not a recognized breed – mixes are smarter and healthier!

  3. They can’t get recognized for a few reasons…

    There needs to be a National Club for the ‘breed’ to apply for pure-bred status. So, the first step is to found the Goldendoodle Club of America or something like that. They need to establish a breed standard, which must describe the ideal Goldendoodle.

    Second of all, there needs to be so many generations of breeding ‘true’ which means EVERY puppy looks like both of it’s parents in type, size, coat, etc, matches the standard as described, and the parents look like their parents and siblings, and so on. Any generation that has an ‘off’ puppy puts the whole process back at the beginning.

    ETA from the AKC website:
    AKC Foundation Stock Service

    Breeds that wish to begin the road to full AKC recognition must be recorded with an accepted registry (maintained by the national breed club or the optional AKC Foundation Stock Service). The AKC Foundation Stock Service (FSS) is the AKC’s recording service for purebred breeds that are not yet eligible for AKC registration. Currently, there are 61 breeds in the FSS, however, acceptance does not ultimately guarantee full AKC registration.

    To be considered for listing as an FSS breed, the National Breed Club must send in a written request, along with additional documentation such as a written history, a written breed standard and photographs are also required at the time of application. Once all information is presented to the Staff Executive Committee, a decision is made to allow or deny each request.

    Miscellaneous Class

    The recognition process begins with a written request to compete in the Miscellaneous Class from the National Breed Club. To be eligible for consideration to become an AKC recognized breed, the following general criteria must be met:
    A demonstrated following and interest (minimum of 100 active household members) in the breed (in the form of a National Breed Club).
    A sufficient population in this country (minimum of 300-400 dogs), with a three-generation pedigree. Dogs in that pedigree must all be of the same breed.
    Geographic distribution of the dogs and people (located in 20 or more states).
    AKC must review and approve the club’s breed standard as well as the club’s constitution and by-laws. Breed observations must be completed by AKC Field Staff.
    If a substantial nationwide interest and activity in the breed is demonstrated and the above criteria met, the information is presented to the AKC Board of Directors for consideration to compete in the Miscellaneous Class.

    Four breeds are currently eligible to compete in the Miscellaneous Class: Dogue de Bordeaux, Redbone Coonhound, Irish Red and White Setter, Norwegian Buhund and Pyrenean Shepherd.

    Moving from Miscellaneous Class to Full AKC Registration

    While there is no established “quota” or timetable for adding new breeds, dogs typically compete in the Miscellaneous Class for one to three years. At the end of the first year, AKC contacts the National Breed Club for updates on the number of dogs and litters recorded, and the number of dogs who have entered events since being eligible to compete in the Miscellaneous Class. Finally, the club must have held matches, local and national breed specialty shows, judges’ workshops and breed seminars.

    When all criteria are met, the information is presented to the Board of Directors for full recognition.

  4. You need a standard and a purpose. This will never be done with just mixing two breeds and creating F1 hybrids.

    True, most purebreds were created by mixing breeds, but they were with a purpose and with a lot of culling. What they’d need to do is organize, write up a standard and eventually close off the registry to the parent breeds. A breed is a breed because it breeds true. Goldendoodles do not breed true and are thus not a breed. You cannot predict coat or temperament on them.

    There is also a genetic issue that you cannot really create a breed with two breeds, after the first gen they begin to revert back to the parent breeds. If you’ll notice most breeds (including the Australian labradoodle) use more than just two breeds.

    There is a LOT more work in creating a breed than throwing two dogs together. Want to look a new breed in the process of being developed? Look up silken windhounds. There’s a good example of people trying to do this RIGHT.

    ETA: Actually, a papillon is NOT a mix of phalenes, chihuahuas and spitzes. No idea where you got that from. Papillon ancestry is really unknown. They’re about 700 years old. the ancestral breed, the Titian spaniel is much older than when the spanish went to Mexico and could’ve brought back a chihuahua. There have been no substantiated claims about the mixes with pom or the mixes with chihuahuas. Their closest relatives are the other toy spaniels. And a phalene and a papillon are the same breed just different ear sets so saying one is crossed with another is just kind of silly. You can breed two papillons and get a phalene.

  5. Rayven Wolf says:

    Because they don’t breed true.

    Secondly not until EVERY goldendoodle is not shedding and they 100% all are not that hypoallergenic claim can’t stand on its own.

    There is no uniformity to litters of GD bred to GD Cockapoos have been bred for longer and they aren’t recognized so what makes you think GDs stand a better chance?

    Not every GD gets a golden’s intelligence. Many are high strung. Do you know how many GD get dropped at the shelters every month because someone int he family still has allergic reactions?

    And would we stop with the mutts are healthier and smarter BS. There are no qualified studies that PROVE this time and time again.

    For that statement to be true every mutt in this world must prove healthier and smarter than every pure bred. Guess what? won’t happen

    And yes until the day when you can breed two goldendoodles and get puppies who match their parents and don’t show traits in favor of one breed of another then you can call them a true breed.

  6. Angry Y!A Nerd, Meaghan Edwards says:

    They can’t be recognized because they are mutts. There is more to creating breeds than mixing different breeds; there’s 400 breeds already, for every purpose, why create more? The Standard Poodle can do the job that a “Labradoodle” can do, but more reliable and IS more allergy friendly. Most “oodles” shed like crazy.

    Check here for why we’re against breeding more mutts:

    http://www.poomixrescue.com has TONS of “oodles” in need of homes, many marked URGENT as they are in danger of being euthanized. There is NO REASON to breed more while these dogs are literally dying as they await a new chance.
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=emGZBLVJmGI
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=hpAXRx8FRRE
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=1bpDE6Vx_QU&feature=related

  7. Because there is no consistency in these breeds – when you breed a Golden Retriever to a Golden Retriever you get – you guessed it – a Golden Retriever, that conforms to a standard set out by a national club. When you breed a Golden Retriever to a Poodle, you get, well, any number of things. You could get a dog that’s more poodle or more retriever, a dog with a retriever coat or a poodle coat, a retriever personality or a poodle personality. You can’t know. Therefore, you can’t register. Maybe in a couple of hundred years, should someone set out to create a standard for goldendoodles and breeds specific traits they’ll be recognized, but not until then. Until then, as Rachel said, there are plently of dogs that already fulfil these needs.

  8. Talk to the AKC; for now you’ve got an overpriced designer mutt; probably from a puppy mill and are part of the puppy mill problem. Congratulations.

  9. bracco_america says:

    AKC recognition is a very sticky issue amongst rare, or non-recognized, breeds. Some breeds want it, others dont. I’m currently president of my breed’s national club, and there is a lot of controversy of whether or not we should aim for AKC recognition.

    In my mind, especially after working with my rare breed, recognition requires a few very important things. First, the breed needs to have a set purpose — for the Goldendoodle it can be as a companion, but this takes years to establish. A Pointer didn’t become a sporting dog overnight. Many of the “oodle” breeders and owners want their dogs recognized NOW.

    And why not?

    Because the rest of us, those who’ve worked tirelessly for years (even generations) to help our breed, don’t want to see the integrity of our breed downgraded by a bunch of mutts. And, yes, they are mutts until they’ve proven they can withstand the test of time.

    The Bracco Italiano is a breed that’s over 2,500 years old. Yes, it was originally a cross — between a Asiatic Mastiff and a Segugio Italiano. But it’s remained pure throughout that time, and we know the ancestors of our dogs. We know the health problems, and we can trace our dogs’ lineage back to the 1920s without blinking an eye. Our dogs’ ancestors are referred to on a first name basis back to that time.

    Our work seems to be worthless when just any breeder can throw a poodle and golden retriever together and say: we’ve got a purebred.

    No, you don’t. Not yet, anyway. Give the Goldendoodle a few years to prove itself. You’ll need a national breed club (do you have one yet?), a strong national following of fanciers, a history, a purpose, and a standard (is there a goldendoodle standard?… out of curiousity I’d like to see it).

    If you want to see the breed AKC recognized, like I want with the Bracco, join/help form the parent club. Learn about genetics so the future of the “breed” isn’t jeoparized by health problems (another reason why people bash: who in their right minds would combine two breeds with so many problems?).

    Stick with your convictions … and you might be the one who is the driving force behind the Goldendoodle’s recognition. The breed’s fanciers need to make sure all breeding stock is health tested (something which I’m nearly positive isn’t done AT ALL in your breed). Work on it…. you just might get somewhere.

  10. As other people have said, purebreds were once mixed with other dogs but there was a purpose. There was an article in the National Geographic magazine a while ago about the guy who created the first labradoodle for blind people with allergies and how he seriously regrets it now because the whole designer dog thing has gotten out of control. Although he did get some good Labradoodles, there was no telling which litter would make dogs that didn’t shed and had the labs intelligence and trainability. No two Goldendoodles look the same, and therefore they are not a breed. You can have two Goldendoodles from the same litter and have one who sheds and one who does not. That’s why won’t be recognized now and hopefully never will be.

  11. For Jess, I think above posts have been wonderful in stating what is needed to create a pure breed.

    I like Goldendoodles just the way they are and hate the idea of closed stud books and pure lines, but it seems pressure is always being applied to go that way. For Goldendoodle fans who want more than the mix of two pures, they could follow the Labradoodle route and start a club to work toward that purpose.

    Here are two clubs and their sites that are trying to establish the Labradoodle as a breed.

    The Australian Labradoodle Association of America:

    http://www.ilainc.com/index.html

    The Australian Labradoodle Association (in Australia)

    http://www.laa.org.au/index.htm

    ******************************

    In regards to the Papillon check out this online book titled “Toy Dogs and Their Ancestors” from 1906.

    http://csl.stanford.edu/~trish/TD_Book-1911.pdf

    It is well researched and points to the Papillon creation in the 13-14 hundreds from oriental type spaniels and the “pomeranian melitea”. As well in the early 1900s there IS recorded proof in pedigrees that the spitz was bred into the breed. You can see photos and read mention of this in the book. The Papillon of today is a far cry from the Titian Spaniel of the 1500s which is probably most truly represented by the Phalene.

    No breeds were bred from “pristine” lines before the registries. They were breeds, but in every one there were additions here and there – so not pure as the registries define them today.

    ********************************

    Bracco, you made this statement. You come across as very even “tempered” about this subject and you and I probably have very different perspectives, but I’d love to understand yours.

    Could you explain this further.

    “Because the rest of us, those who’ve worked tirelessly for years (even generations) to help our breed, don’t want to see the integrity of our breed downgraded by a bunch of mutts.”

    How do designer mixes have the effect of “downgrading” your breed?

    I am always astounded when I here Cocker breeders talk about the Cockapoo in this manner. The Cocker Spaniel is no longer true representatives of its originating breed as its coat is too profuse and it can’t possibly work. How is a Cockapoo any more of an insult to true Cocker fans than a showline Cocker?

    Of course I don’t pull these thoughts from thin air. I am a Farm Collie fan who despises what has been done in the show ring to that breed. I can no longer say I am a Collie fan, as I used to be able to say when growing up.

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